Bisexual / Pansexual discussion

I would like to open a discussion which has been on my mind quite a bit over the last year. I have heard the term “pansexual” used specifically to dissociate an orientation from bisexuality by suggesting that the former includes trans and intersex people, while the former excludes it. In my experience, this has never been true of any bisexual person who did not possess a negative attitude toward such people.

While the term “pansexual” may be more accurate (there are more than two possible biological sex categories, much less gender identification!), I find myself uncomfortable about this shift in terminology for reasons I am not entirely able to articulate. It sometimes seems like those who claim the term pansexual are doing so out of a wish not to be identified as bisexual, and that leads me to wonder if the specificity they claim is really unique.

Hence, I would like to ask a question: For anyone in my audience who identifies specifically as bisexual, if you are comfortable with making this information known, do you also experience attraction to trans and/or intersex people? Have you known any people who identify as bisexual and do not?

Basically, I would like to gauge how many people would hypothetically fall under the pansexual identification while instead identifying as bisexual for any or no reason.

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Slogging your way out of it

You know the worst thing about fighting depression? Having to pretend you care about feeling better when, really, you’re having such a hard time convincing yourself that there’s any point to trying, because it feels absurd to fight so hard to continue doing something you don’t enjoy. The terrible part is, maybe you would enjoy it if you weren’t depressed — but it messes with your mind. It sucks the joy out of memories. You can’t remember ever enjoying anything. It just seems like one big uphill slog for no good reason, but you’ve got to put on the brave front and pretend it’s all going to work out.

Being in the middle of it is the worst possible time to try and decide whether it’s worth fighting it. You’ll just have to take someone else’s word for it: It is. Whether life continues to suck or not, it’s still worth it. At least then you’ll know. You’ll have the choice, the perspective, the capacity to differentiate between outcomes.

Don’t take depression’s word for it. Depression is a lying jerk.

Gay conversion therapy and olives

This is inspired by Unicorn Babble’s thread on the subject.

I hate olives, and I don’t use the word “hate” without adequate reason. While I’ve never had a problem with olive oil, the flavor of olives, whether fresh, canned, bottled, cooked, raw, baked into pizza or scattered amongst a pasta dish…

Yuck. No, “yuck” isn’t adequate. Olives are almost indescribably disgusting. Some people say they taste salty and a little bitter. I think the flavor is more akin to what you would get if you wore a single pair of socks every day for a year and then used them to make soup stock. Olives are revolting. If I’m not expecting to have to deal with them (and thereby have a chance to brace myself for the ick), they literally induce a gag reflex. Olives are horrible. They’re not food. They’re not a condiment or a snack or a palate cleanser or something you’d feed your pet. The terrible factor goes beyond “not fit for human consumption.” These aren’t intended for consumption at all. I’m reasonably certain that olives were originally intended to be used to clear clogged drains or to clean up oil off pavement. Nothing with a flavor like this could possibly have a purpose other than heavy duty industrial material. Maybe they’re used to absorb and neutralize nuclear waste.

They’re pretty gross.

The strangest thing in the world is that some people actually–apparently!–actually enjoy the flavor. These people must truly be psychologically disturbed. I’m not sure whether to pity them or be horrified that anyone could be such palate perverts. What kind of strange, twisted choices have these people made in their lives to wind up this way? Are olives the next step after some insidious gateway drug?

Unfortunately, judging by the frequency that I see olives in innocuous dishes from across the globe, it seems I’m actually a minority. Apparently quite a few people, or even most people, genuinely enjoy olives. This is incomprehensible. My first question is why? and my second question is how? I know that tastes differ, but the idea that anyone would willingly put an olive in their mouth, well, it’s completely absurd. Don’t they realize that olives are more likely to be used as torture devices? I have it on good faith that prisoners are often shackled down and forced to consume olive loaf sandwiches.

The hammer is– wait, I mean, olives are heterosexuality.

I am bisexual and I have been for as long as I’ve known. Despite having straight parents who never once spoke to me of homosexuality, I’ve always been attracted to the same sex. This led to feelings of embarrassment and discomfort when I thought it wasn’t normal, and I even talked myself out of acknowledging it for awhile when I realized that I wasn’t attracted to certain types of people, but as I got older and kept examining my sexuality, I eventually pieced it together. The truth is that I am bisexual, but have a preference for feminine features on men and women alike. This is so natural to me that I have a hard time understanding gay or straight people, as a part of me insists that they are willfully limiting their options.

Technically, this means that if homosexuality were to be straight up outlawed tomorrow morning and any and all people exhibiting any signs of homosexuality were to be rounded up, I could theoretically escape notice simply by continuing to date the opposite sex and pretending not to notice the other. I will never experience what it’s like to be constrained to an orientation that society often doesn’t accept, but that doesn’t mean I am unable to imagine it — I just look at myself as one of the few people who can’t stand olives in a world with people who gobble them up. (Seriously, people are shameless.)

Enter conversion therapy, which to my probing, typically occurs in two forms. There may be more, but of the stories I’ve read from former patients and employees, these seem to be the most common.

Some conversion therapy focuses on religious persuasion, emphasizing the impurity and sinfulness of homosexuality while encouraging prayer and dedication to God. It seeks to create a feedback loop wherein a person reinforces their determination to avoid homosexual activity by considering it inherently evil and the resistance of it inherently good, therefore they feel closest to God while denying their natural urges. Such a life is ultimately not very satisfactory because it entails having to studiously avoid what feels good and right in favor of less engaging relationships — a life of going through the motions, pretending that the motions are satisfactory enough.

Other conversion therapy draws on a psychological technique — aversion therapy. In aversion therapy, a patient is trained to associate stimuli with a negative reaction by being exposed to the behavior the psychologist wants to discourage while simultaneously being made uncomfortable in some fashion. One former patient described being given electrical shocks and nausea-inducing drugs while gay pornography was displayed on a screen. The therapy is designed to make the patient suffer phantom pangs of these same uncomfortable sensations whenever they would normally feel attracted to someone.

The former is largely ineffectual. The latter is torture. Like torture, there are misleading statistics from poorly documented sources that are often quoted to justify its use with false efficacy. The practice is now condemned by the American Psychiatric Association, but there remain numerous clinics which practice “reparation therapy.”

Imagine being strapped into a chair and forced to eat olives until you agreed they were delicious.

Oh, wait, you probably like olives. Pervert.